Calling All Beings: #7 Richard Doty – UFO Crash Retrievals

Roswell: The 2nd craft crashed in a very, very remote area of Catron County in western New Mexico up in the mountains That craft site wasn’t found until 1949 by a rancher moving his cattle from a lower grazing area up to a higher When he found the craft, the ETs inside the craft never got out so they were all decayed inside the craft

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calling all beings y’all
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[Music]
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yeah welcome back to calling all beings
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baby i’m your host dj here with my
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amazing co-host nathan y’all about to
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know him because he’s gonna be on that
00:42
ufo podcast with andy everybody’s about
00:45
to know
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thank you so much it’s such a i’m so
00:48
happy that you’re going to be going on
00:49
there nathan thanks man all right
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and and you know what’s going to happen
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it’s about to get real up in here right
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um that’s what i heard yeah because we
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having the man himself
01:00
what we’re talking about man this man
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okay
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this man you know what you notice i’m
01:05
wearing black tonight very professional
01:07
yeah because this man operates in the
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shadows
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you know what i’m saying this man here
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for an appetizer in the air force he was
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a combat controller the most difficult
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school physically and mentally in the
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air force bar none sorry pjs i hope
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you’re not mad at me and and then after
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that he was an afosi special agent so
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party people
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put your hands together
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for new mexico’s own
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mr rick
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dodie
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yes
01:45
rick dodie
01:47
yes jimmy church okay you had him first
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but we got him now baby look at this i
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got some air i could i could have i
01:54
could have some dark hair i you know i
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may not have the cool guitars on the
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wall but what i do have is
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uh
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hey rick so so anyway rick
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how you doing it’s so nice to have you
02:07
great to have you on rick
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great introduction thanks
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see we’re bringing it real we’re not
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messing around rick we’re not messing
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around uh but no we love to have fun we
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like to have our um
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and you’ll see my voice will calm down
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i’ll sound like a normal person
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but
02:24
but we we do like to have our our um
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our ufo talk which we absolutely love
02:30
and respect with a touch of humor
02:32
because that’s authentic and as soon as
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you’re not authentic then uh people like
02:37
you can sniff out that somebody’s a fake
02:39
and uh listeners also can sniff that out
02:41
that aren’t as astute as yourself and uh
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that’s not us so with that um it’s it’s
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a pleasure to have you
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rick first question and we’re gonna pass
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it back and forth between my brilliant
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co-host and i
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so you were a combat controller before
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afosi
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no no no no i was
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i was a combat controller before i went
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into osi that’s i was in a regular air
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force first
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yeah and uh then i got out went to
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college
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and then i joined osi
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okay
03:16
okay so that’s that’s that’s the uh yeah
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that’s how it happened
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but that’s like is that not the hardest
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the hardest school the air force has was
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combat control
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well
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yeah it is uh i believe it was uh back
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then and but i came in uh back in 1968
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69
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what
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yes you don’t look like you’re that what
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are you doing i’m 71 years old believe
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it or not yes i am incredible
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he looks like he’s i keep in shape
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yeah but but back in those days uh
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combat controllers
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uh we were we were called conte back
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controllers but we were uh
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assigned to ford air controller units
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um
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and tactical control flight units
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and a lot of our training was army
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training
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this is 6869 time frame
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so the air force didn’t have the program
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they have now and special tactics
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uh back in those days
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back in those days when you go through
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went to what the basic training and you
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were selected
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for a special operations uh assignment
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you went to a personal
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assessment course at lachlan
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and they cons it consisted of pj
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combat controllers and tactical
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intelligence
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pipeline students
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and so out of my flight there were 54 of
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us
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uh and you go through
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everyone went through the same
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introductory training you had to go
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through swim a swim uh uh course
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the the uh altitude chamber
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um
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you carried the rope and the log every
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morning you did exercises and that at
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the um
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fifth week mark is a six week course is
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the fifth week mark
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i wanted to be a combat controller
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because one of my brothers
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my brother was in the army but one of
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his best friends was a combat controller
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and so i wanted to be one of them
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everybody else wanted to be pjs
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and so they picked you
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and you went into one or the other the
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tactical intelligence specialists were
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all people with
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real funny last names and already spoke
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intelligent oh you spoke
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you knew where they were going got it
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chinese russian and and so forth and so
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uh that’s how you picked and then from
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there you went to the pipeline school
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uh you went through uh jump school and
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uh and all the different uh courses in
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it it took about uh 60
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64 66 weeks
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of training
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yeah i knew it was over a year and
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you’re on flight status at that point
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you’re on right you’re on flying status
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so you’re making i mean i have no doubt
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rick if you would have continued in that
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career field you would have ended up in
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the 24th sts at bragg
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i was assigned to a unit in um
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just before i got out i got out in
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germany uh to uh
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in bad tolts
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uh to the
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612th tax control flight
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and that was a predecessor for
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was called project rainbow we had pjs we
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had tie caps technical air control party
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uh and we had uh uh
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the weather people the combat weather
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people
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which was something new uh
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and um we kind of got along i mean there
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were a few fights here and there you
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know with the pjs because they were all
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it was always our competition i knew it
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yeah yeah yeah yeah always our
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competition yeah we were the scarlet
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brays and they were the moon room praise
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and people would get us mixed up call us
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pjs or call them
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ccds
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people are angry
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now let me ask you let me ask a dumb
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question as a non-military person what
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what is a pj what i don’t know what’s
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the difference pj is a pair of rescue
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yeah their job was combat rescue search
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and rescue uh they would go out and and
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search uh for down pilots
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uh and and search and rescue on the
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ground
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uh they were real famous in vietnam
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did some remarkable things
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a lot of them uh i think there was two
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or three medal of honor winners among
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pjs
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in fact i have one
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living uh
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not too far from me who uh
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was uh one of the
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uh pjs who went in and rescued
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uh
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18 uh two two members of a team up on uh
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laos i don’t know if you ever heard of
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lima site85 you i’m sure you know i i
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don’t know if i’ve heard of that site
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but i knew there was things going on in
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laos that weren’t supposed to be going
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on in laos yeah he was a pg out of uh
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play cool but he he went in and picked
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up but
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just just google lima site85 and you
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you’ll you’ll probably read a story okay
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that’s what pjs did in combat
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controllers we were different although
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there were a lot of uh
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the same training we went through but
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combat controllers our model was first
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there
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we would be the terminal controllers on
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the ground
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uh in a combat area we were first there
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we would jump in and we would call in
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all the other aircrafts
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uh we would we would set them up in air
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air sectors and we would bring them in
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troop drops cargo drops
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uh whatever we would set up what we call
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a box
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uh i’m sure dj knows all about this
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box where you you come in on a certain
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heading you drop your load and then you
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take off and and and then you would hold
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you in a particular pattern so we were
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we were a form of a combat uh
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uh
09:10
traffic controller
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yep but but we had other missions we
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drove fire support missions where we
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would go in
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and we didn’t have lasers back then now
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they have lasers they’d lose a target
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and the plane would come in and hit the
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target we had grid set patterns where
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we’d give them a magrid uh they would
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have the same map that we would have
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hopefully
09:30
right yeah
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they would they would
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yeah exactly right yeah and so and
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that’s what a a combat uh controller did
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and then tactical intelligence
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they’re i think they’re called um
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special reconnaissance now
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uh but they would go into areas behind
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the line so to speak
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and because they were all linguists
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and um
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and and and operate behind the line and
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then they had combat weather they would
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jump in with us
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uh and and they would be the weather
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people on the ground
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those are my favorite people and i used
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to go on trips rick uh like on the
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talons and we’d carry a linguist an
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intel linguist type person i always want
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to hang out eat dinner with them they’re
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like so interesting they’re so not air
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crew but they’re the most fascinating
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people
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but um anyway all right we got to get
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into some ufos or people going to start
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throwing tomatoes
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at their screen right now i want to hear
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rip talk about crosstalk
10:30
so i could go on about this other stuff
10:31
all night this is fascinating oh i we
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haven’t we haven’t even scratched
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surface i told rick both and nathan his
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career was so much i i thought i had an
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exciting career flying talons his was
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much more exciting than mine but anyway
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go ahead nathan go ahead yeah well uh so
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yeah as a segue i mean how did you
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transition from combat control to air
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force osi
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how did they come to you did you seek
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that out how did that occur
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well my father uh i came from military
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family
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my father was a colonel uh an air force
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uh he was a pilot during korea he got
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shot down over korea
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uh he was rescued behind enemy lines by
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the greek army so he loves the greeks
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you can could never say anything bad
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about the greeks and then um
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he never flew again after that i mean it
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wasn’t necessarily because he was
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injured but he just decided to branch
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off so he became a intelligence officer
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my father was originally
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his family was from massachusetts
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that my father went to amherst college
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okay
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and before he went in the military he
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was interested in languages so he
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he studied russian
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i am hearst that back in those days was
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a pretty pretty big language school area
11:48
i mean if you wanted to learn in
11:49
language or
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so he’s he he majored in russian studies
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and this is in the 40s when right after
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the world war ii
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and um so i was a military brat so to
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speak my dad went into intelligence
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uh he was intelligence his entire career
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other than
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a few years he he was in as a pilot
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and um
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he wasn’t osi but he was in uh
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in uh
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offensive intelligence collectors
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uh he spoke fluent russian fluent german
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uh spoke some check
12:23
we spent a lot of time in germany in
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fact we were in germany when
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uh kennedy was assassinated oh well he
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was we were assigned a v span
12:31
and um
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so when i uh i got out of the regular
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air force i went to college i wanted to
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be a teacher
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and so i majored in education but then i
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also got interested in
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political science um a somewhat of a
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good debater so i okay i actually
12:49
switched majors to political science i
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got a degree a degree in political
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science with a minor in education and i
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tried to teach but then i realized
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i didn’t have the patience
13:01
uh to teach
13:03
it’s hard
13:04
i did i did student teaching in a in an
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inner city school in tacoma washington i
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went to college at pacific lutheran
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university which is in tacoma okay and
13:15
um
13:16
i decided i want to branch out and um i
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got a call from a guy well actually a
13:20
professor of mine who was a very very
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very liberal professor
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very liberal
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but he gave me a name of a person to
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contact
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about a job okay and i did and um
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the roundabout way i i decided to go
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into osi air force officer well it was
13:40
an intelligence career field
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um
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with with initially with dia defense
13:45
intelligence agency
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and then i went to the osi academy and
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the dia school cia
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and that’s how i ended up in osa
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that was awesome man i told people how
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everybody in the air force fears osi
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he knows that he’s nodding his head all
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right nathan get the ufos before
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somebody i’m gonna get shot up man i got
14:09
it i gotta get fragged right in front of
14:10
rick dodie let’s go we can’t have we
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can’t have that so yeah so this week uh
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a shout out to one of our our guests in
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the audience uh uh james ian doley uh
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this was kind of his brainchild to spend
14:20
a week in the ufo community the content
14:23
creator community and talk a little bit
14:25
about crash retrieval and so we’ve got a
14:28
lot of shows happening across the the
14:30
group of folks that put out content
14:32
looking at this topic
14:33
and you know so excited to have you on
14:36
to kind of get your perspective not only
14:38
on
14:39
you know kind of what you know
14:41
within that space but also we want to
14:44
talk a little bit about what’s happening
14:45
now too uh but but before we get to now
14:48
i think i want to start with the past
14:51
in your knowledge as far as you you know
14:53
and you know as you’re probably familiar
14:55
jacques volley recently published uh his
14:57
book trinity and uh
14:59
co-written by paula harris
15:02
was was trinity or roswell really the
15:05
first sort of
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craft crash that that you are aware of
15:11
well when i was at kirtland air force
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base uh
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i had the um
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opportunity
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to be briefed into a special access
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program
15:22
a project aquarius
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and that involved the historical
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uh
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connection between the united states
15:30
government
15:31
and uh ets uh
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uaps and ufos we didn’t call them uaps
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back then with all ufos
15:39
or uh identified crafts i mean we knew
15:42
what they were so we call them
15:43
identified
15:45
aerial uh crafts
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and
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that the briefing that i received in
15:50
1979
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uh encompassed
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crash retrieval
15:56
when we united states government
15:58
government
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first got into the program
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and uh the first uh
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part of the briefing
16:06
uh was roswell
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the roswell crash although
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actually the craft crashed and corona
16:13
new mexico which is north of roswell
16:17
and
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what we were told
16:20
we saw pictures of what we saw a lone
16:22
army film a recovery of
16:24
is that during the summer of 1947
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there were two et crafts flying over new
16:30
mexico
16:32
and um
16:33
these crafts
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during an electric storm in new mexico
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now dj you’ve been in new mexico you
16:39
know how vicious electrical storms can
16:42
be
16:43
and what we found out what we not me but
16:47
our government found out later was
16:49
apparently these crafts had never
16:51
encountered lightning
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and somehow
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these during the storm they were struck
16:57
by lightning
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they collided the two each crafts one
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landed near corona new mexico and one
17:03
landed west
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of socorro new mexico out near horse
17:07
mesa
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now the corona crash had actually two
17:10
sites
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one the debris field which was the
17:13
antenna portion of the craft
17:16
the second crash the second site was
17:18
actually the craft
17:20
there were actually pictures posted on
17:21
the internet some years ago about this
17:23
about regarding this craft an
17:25
archeological team first found it
17:28
found um some alien bodies uh dead dead
17:32
bodies in one live alien one of a live
17:35
e.t
17:36
um
17:38
brazil uh
17:40
his ranch
17:41
was the nation of the debris field the
17:44
antenna portion of the craft
17:46
which is miles away from the actual
17:48
craft
17:50
and that was all recovered in the summer
17:51
of 1947 by the united states
17:54
uh army out of roswell
17:57
the second craft
17:58
crashed way in a very very remote area
18:01
of catcher and county in western new
18:04
mexico up in the mountain
18:05
that craft site wasn’t found until 1949
18:09
by a rancher he was moving his cattle
18:11
from a lower grazing area up to a higher
18:13
when he found his craft
18:16
well the et’s inside the craft
18:19
never got out so they were all decayed
18:21
inside the craft when he found he didn’t
18:24
know what it was
18:25
immediately notified
18:27
the catchment county sheriff now you
18:29
understand that this is remote
18:32
in new mexico
18:34
phones were very very uh remote
18:37
distance from locations it took him two
18:40
days to get to a phone to call the
18:42
county sheriff
18:44
took the sheriff 11 days to get up to
18:47
the crash site wow and when he got up to
18:49
the crash site he realized
18:51
well this isn’t
18:52
this isn’t something i don’t i know what
18:54
to do with so then he notified them the
18:56
state police the state police new mexico
18:58
state police they didn’t know what to do
19:00
so anyways they notified at that time
19:02
the air force the kirtland air force
19:04
base and they responded recovered it
19:07
and took the craft uh to uh kirlin and
19:10
then on to los alamos
19:12
los alamos
19:14
that’s really interesting
19:15
the live et went to los alamos now
19:19
contrary to a lot of uh what other
19:21
people said
19:22
um the first crash
19:25
uh that that uh that was taken to
19:27
roswell
19:28
and part of the craft was flown uh to
19:31
write patterson
19:33
but the ets in the bodies were flown to
19:36
los alamos they needed a
19:38
a
19:39
a cryogenic
19:41
facility
19:42
which they didn’t have a right path but
19:45
they had at los alamos to store the
19:47
bodies
19:49
they don’t know what they didn’t know
19:50
what they were i mean they didn’t know
19:51
if how they were going to decay they
19:53
were biologically different than us
19:56
and so they needed to store them
19:57
someplace and that’s why they went to
19:59
los alamos the live e.t la lived from 47
20:03
to 1952

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20:03
to 1952
20:04
at los alamos
20:06
if i were to ask you to put a percentage
20:09
on your
20:10
your level of confidence that this is
20:12
the case as it actually unfolded what
20:14
percentage would you give that
20:16
100
20:18
it wasn’t just
20:20
the briefing that i got because what
20:22
number one let me go back a little bit i
20:24
was never interested in the subject of
20:26
ufos as a kid
20:28
i was never interested my father never
20:31
spoke about him
20:33
my brother on the other hand john is
20:35
older than me
20:37
he was a uh he was fascinated in the
20:39
subject we roomed together we always had
20:41
a room together
20:42
and uh he would go out and buy true
20:44
magazines back that were published back
20:46
in the 60s
20:48
he also bought the the first book that
20:50
george adamski had published
20:53
and
20:53
and he tried to try to get me to read
20:55
these things but i was always hung up
20:57
with zane gray i loved westerns and so i
21:00
was never interested in the subject
21:03
uh nowhere in osis
21:05
academy the dia intelligence operations
21:09
course or the cia course
21:12
was the subject of ufos or ets mentioned
21:15
none never not even in any way
21:18
whatsoever
21:20
so when i got to kirtland and i was
21:22
involved in an investigation that
21:24
include that involved a strange object
21:27
that landed in a remote training area
21:30
um i didn’t know what it was of course
21:32
my uh initial uh thought was probably
21:35
was maybe something foreign maybe a
21:38
soviet craft flew in from
21:41
mexico or something to that effect
21:43
when i sat in this briefing and they
21:45
started telling telling us and there
21:47
were
21:48
other people in this briefing it was the
21:50
briefing was done by an air force
21:51
colonel when they started telling us and
21:53
showing us pictures of recovery film
21:56
that that is an older film you could you
21:58
could tell it was old about ufos and
22:01
about et’s
22:03
i just couldn’t believe it i i i sat
22:05
there and i thought this was some sort
22:07
of a
22:08
psychological operations and i thought
22:10
they’re going to try to psych us out on
22:12
something and then we were to go out and
22:14
run some exercise that’s what i thought
22:16
yeah but as we got into it
22:19
and as we
22:20
we got more in-depth
22:22
into what we what we were seeing
22:25
and the evidence that was presented to
22:27
us
22:28
i realized my god this is true
22:31
now this briefing occurred at the
22:32
western uh west west kirtland air force
22:35
base and the osi office was on the east
22:38
side
22:39
i was driving back
22:41
and i had to pull off the road and i sat
22:43
there for probably 15 to 20 minutes
22:45
trying to reconcile what i had just seen
22:49
information i just got yeah i still had
22:52
some doubts in my mind like you know
22:55
is this is there some other type of plan
22:58
do they have is this some kind of a
23:00
psychological operations
23:02
but when i got back to the office i
23:04
immediately got
23:07
got my tickets punched for a special
23:09
access program
23:10
meaning we had our own uh uh uh
23:14
security uh special access security
23:17
terminal in the osi office meaning a
23:20
teletype system we could get top secret
23:22
info in got it and the operator was was
23:25
a civilian
23:26
and
23:27
you know he would feed stuff to whoever
23:30
had access to it
23:32
and uh now let me talk about this real
23:34
quick and dj will
23:36
will understand this just because you
23:38
have a high level security clearance a
23:40
top secret doesn’t mean you have access
23:43
you have to have a need to know
23:45
in order to have access to something
23:47
okay so there were other osi agents in
23:50
the office they didn’t have the same
23:51
need to know that i did
23:53
so i got i started receiving all these
23:56
teletypes top secret code word
23:59
uh
24:00
teletypes about sightings
24:03
and landings all over the world
24:05
and with all this
24:08
totality of it
24:09
put together i realized that what i the
24:12
briefing i i received was 100 factual
24:17
wow and and there’s no frame of
24:19
reference to consider
24:20
people it’s funny that everybody’s
24:22
calling and texting us when we’re on air
24:23
because it’s happening to both me and
24:25
rick but um it’s it’s me too
24:28
i know i know there’s no frame of
24:30
reference to consume this information
24:32
rick you know what i mean like you don’t
24:34
have a frame of reference to go oh yeah
24:36
of course yeah there’s they just landed
24:38
down in runway eight i got it right
24:40
so everything’s new and rick how many
24:42
folks were in that uh
24:44
room with you in that initial briefing
24:46
was it who were who were getting this
24:48
for the first time with you
24:50
uh
24:51
all of them were intelligence officers
24:53
uh
24:54
it was myself and one other rsi agent
24:57
and i i don’t know exactly number i
24:59
would say
25:00
probably not more than 20.
25:02
okay
25:03
like this is where his resistance
25:05
training is coming in he learned this at
25:07
the ranch i’m just kidding all right so
25:09
rick
25:10
if you don’t mind we have a we have a
25:12
guy from australia that has called in to
25:15
ask you a question about luis elizondo
25:17
stephen greer so we’re gonna like like
25:19
the beings we’re gonna project forward
25:21
in time but then we’re gonna return back
25:23
to kirtland okay okay okay
25:26
here we go grant dj how are you buddy
25:30
this guy is such an amazing artist um he
25:33
is able to digitally put people’s faces
25:36
on other people’s faces it’s like john
25:38
travolta movie
25:40
it’s nuts so grant hello say hello to
25:42
rick dodie and go ahead brother
25:44
well firstly dj and nathan thanks for
25:45
having me on guys i really enjoy uh you
25:48
know the content you guys put out and
25:49
rick it’s uh it’s a pleasure to to make
25:51
your acquaintance so um so thank you for
25:53
taking a question or two from me today
25:57
you get a question that’s all you get a
25:59
question i’ll limit it to one
26:01
so i i i guess the question i had for
26:03
you is you know um
26:05
based on your background in obviously
26:08
you know counterintelligence and the
26:09
network that you’ve established over the
26:11
years
26:12
uh
26:13
you i think you’re uniquely positioned
26:15
to probably answer this question or at
26:16
least opine um so so dr steven greer has
26:20
publicly asserted that lou
26:22
elizondo uh
26:24
is essentially a fear-mongering
26:26
disinformation agent and louis louis
26:29
lazonda has publicly insinuated that
26:31
greer is uh
26:34
has hoaxed c5 events for for personal
26:37
gain so
26:38
i’m interested to get your uh opinion on
26:42
the greer elizondo dichotomy that that
26:44
exists at the moment who
26:46
who who are we to believe
26:50
well my own opinion uh
26:55
i know steven greer i know him
26:59
quite well uh i’ve been acknowledged
27:03
i’ve spoke with him many
27:04
times i don’t know
27:08
i have never met him in person
27:12
in person
27:16
rick i’m really
27:18
rick excuse me for one second i’m really
27:20
sorry to interrupt you uh we’re getting
27:22
an interruption in your signal is it
27:24
possible that you could disconnect and
27:26
then and then come back in into the
27:29
backstage
27:30
uh go ahead and talk real quick let me
27:32
see how it’s working yeah i think i’m
27:34
losing you yeah yeah if you drop and
27:36
then use the same link you’ll come right
27:38
back and we’ll put you back on yeah it
27:40
seems to work so i apologize
27:43
yes please and then just come right back
27:45
because without you we have no show okay
27:48
okay
27:51
great question grant uh so
27:53
the unidentified celebrity rev review
27:56
grant is a huge fan of theirs and with
27:59
good reason and he produces this amazing
28:02
i don’t know if it’s cg i don’t know
28:03
what the hell it is i just know i can’t
28:05
do it i love your content and thank you
28:07
thank you for what you do anything that
28:09
can add some smiles on folks dolls so if
28:12
it uh if it adds a bit of levity to
28:14
the topics that are serious then you
28:16
know it’s uh it’s i’m happy to do it
28:19
yeah we’re all for it uh what time is it
28:21
right now is it one time zone throughout
28:23
the continent of australia uh so i’m in
28:26
melbourne australia and it’s uh it’s
28:28
about 11 30 in the morning so i’m just
28:30
taking my my mid-morning coffee break
28:32
from my uh my day-to-day to uh to have a
28:35
chat with you guys i love it i’m so glad
28:37
we didn’t keep you awake or something
28:39
hopefully uh rick is gonna come back
28:41
otherwise more people are to throw
28:43
tomatoes
28:45
virtual tomatoes which i’m sure grant
28:46
could help us cg
28:48
turn into a
28:50
yeah
28:50
turn into a deep fake uh
28:53
master class maybe i don’t know
28:55
i’d actually be interested in doing a
28:56
whole show on sort of the deep fakes and
28:58
your thoughts on you know kind of where
29:00
we’re going with uh
29:02
sort of
29:03
journalism information the information
29:05
the public sphere you know how we can
29:09
what will we be able to do to verify the
29:12
sort of truthfulness of
29:14
what we see
29:15
well it’s it’s it’s actually fascinating
29:17
what people can do now and and what uh
29:20
kind of got me into uh exploring the
29:23
deep fake area just for a bit of fun
29:24
really is um i can’t remember his handle
29:27
but there’s a
29:28
there’s a guy on um on twitter who does
29:31
these absolutely incredibly amazing
29:33
defects of tom cruise oh yeah and man
29:36
they’re just and i think
29:38
yeah and justin bieber has actually
29:40
fooled recently where he actually
29:42
commented on a
29:43
on on one of the videos thinking that it
29:45
was the real tom cruise so amazing uh
29:47
it’s
29:48
and and he’s got the voice down pat for
29:50
it as well and everything for it but
29:51
it’s it’s crazy what what can be done
29:53
now with uh machine learning and yeah
29:56
it’s
29:57
it’s just an exciting future yeah for
30:00
sure okay and when we left
30:02
rick dodi was talking about i know
30:04
stephen greer i don’t
30:06
know lou elizondo but
30:08
dot dot dot
30:10
okay i know of loose background i know
30:13
where he worked in the pentagon what he
30:15
did
30:16
so i can budge what he claimed he did
30:19
and where he worked
30:21
uh but but that’s not as far as i’m
30:23
gonna go i don’t i don’t know
30:26
uh
30:27
the information that he’s providing is
30:29
accurate or not
30:30
i i trust stephen and he’s
30:33
he’s done
30:35
years and years of research into this
30:37
area
30:38
and so i i trust uh i guess what stephen
30:41
said
30:42
i’m not going to take one side or the
30:44
other at this time
30:46
oh my goodness
30:48
your career in reality television i’m
30:50
just kidding um i i thank you very much
30:53
for taking that question rick grant we
30:56
will talk to you sir
30:58
we’ll talk to you sir because i think
30:59
nathan has just built an episode of you
31:02
and your work okay we’re gonna do it
31:03
yeah very good i appreciate it we’ll
31:05
have you we’re gonna have you on i’m
31:06
gonna stay right here i’ll be happy to
31:08
join you guys anytime thanks thanks and
31:10
uh i hope the rest of the show goes well
31:12
thank you
31:12
thanks guys
31:15
so rick i guess like what’s interesting
31:17
me about that answer uh
31:19
you know kind of what your thoughts on
31:20
this so there seems to be like a
31:23
over time
31:25
a fragmentation of understanding right
31:27
so what you just described in your
31:29
initial
31:30
experience of this was a very
31:33
i think clear story you know that you
31:36
were given a briefing
31:37
there seems to be a great deal of
31:39
knowledge that is understood about
31:40
what’s going on
31:42
and then as we fast forward and time to
31:44
where we are now
31:45
we’ve got a lot of different competing
31:47
narratives that are sort of filling the
31:49
the airwaves here so is that a
31:52
in your opinion is that a result of us
31:55
learning more out more about this than
31:57
we knew before or is this something else
32:00
is it an intentional mudding of of the
32:02
waters of what we really know
32:05
well i think it’s uh
32:06
a number of number of reasons but
32:10
one particular one is over the years
32:12
people have taken this subject
32:16
they’ve uh
32:17
grasped it
32:19
whether it’s
32:21
in a realm of believability
32:24
or
32:26
whether it’s
32:27
just for their own
32:29
uh for their own sake
32:31
and they’ve written books about it
32:33
they’ve uh
32:34
movies and so forth
32:37
and
32:38
and what happens within the ufo
32:40
community is there con there’s
32:42
conflicting uh sides to everything
32:45
the ufo community
32:47
as phil class said once and we know who
32:50
phil class was
32:51
he was a skeptic
32:53
um he said you do more harm within the
32:58
ufo community to yourselves than i could
33:00
to ever do on the outside and that’s
33:02
true there’s so many backstabbers within
33:05
the ufo community because
33:07
one person will write a book about
33:09
something
33:10
the other person will write a
33:12
conflicting
33:13
story about that same book that same uh
33:16
the book and and then there’s a rivalry
33:19
between the people within the ufo
33:21
community yeah and there’s so much um
33:24
you know i can i can honestly say that
33:27
my
33:28
uh 11 years or so being in the
33:30
intelligence area and knowing what we
33:33
were doing and knowing
33:35
what i knew about the ufo phenomena
33:38
i can say that probably
33:41
easily 60 percent of everything that was
33:43
published is absolutely bull
33:47
there’s no truth whatsoever about a lot
33:50
of the information and
33:52
and although i
33:54
uh
33:55
i am a uh
33:57
i like
33:58
jack fillet and i like uh harris the
34:01
book trinity
34:03
uh was a uh well-written book
34:06
but the actual event in 1945 if you were
34:10
to go and find
34:12
the brother brother who is still alive
34:14
and talk to him
34:17
which some other people have done
34:19
they’re going to tell you a different
34:20
story
34:22
now the state police officer that they
34:25
quote in the book i spoke with years ago
34:28
when he was still alive
34:30
and he emphatically told me
34:33
that what the the plane that was crack
34:35
crashed was a us army
34:38
plane
34:40
it wasn’t a a ufo it wasn’t from any
34:44
other planet it was an air force or an
34:46
army plane
34:47
army air force plane it was flying a
34:50
mission it was it was testing a very new
34:53
type of radar
34:55
and so the equipment inside was
34:57
classified for the army air force
34:59
that’s why the military treated it like
35:02
it was like it was now
35:04
i’m not gonna
35:06
go public and say you know your book is
35:08
blown i don’t know what the other
35:10
brother said and
35:11
and maybe there’s some truth about
35:13
something else in there but
35:15
uh i know i know the though uh the the
35:18
state police officer
35:20
um
35:21
and that’s what he told me so
35:23
uh you can take it whatever way you want
35:25
to
35:27
you know
35:28
rick um i’m going to ask you about other
35:31
crashes that you think may or may not
35:32
have happened and after that i really
35:34
want to kind of get into
35:36
you know we can get into a little bit of
35:38
nuts and bolts about i’d like to get
35:39
your thoughts on area 51 a little bit
35:41
obviously i’d like to get your your
35:44
thoughts what we’ll get into is a little
35:46
bit of the the construct of from an
35:48
intelligence standpoint of how you would
35:50
compartmentalize this information and
35:53
although i know nothing uh legitimate
35:55
about mj 12 it seems like the type of a
35:57
construct i would make to keep people
36:00
who have a need to know from knowing
36:03
because the joint chiefs need to know
36:05
uh the secretary of defense needs to
36:07
know the president needs to know so how
36:09
do i keep them from knowing well i
36:11
create a program where even though they
36:12
have a need to know they’re not going to
36:14
know but that’s beside the point um
36:17
how many crashes do you think we’ll get
36:19
into that and i really want to get your
36:21
how you feel about different things
36:23
interdimensional versus extraterrestrial
36:26
all this kind of stuff but
36:28
how many crashes do you think we’ve had
36:30
do you suspect or know of which either
36:35
well i know of the the the cronin horse
36:38
mesa crash i know of the kingman crash
36:41
uh that was in the briefing
36:43
um
36:45
the um
36:46
there was one out
36:48
in
36:48
the middle of uh
36:50
nevada it was near uh
36:52
it was called the uh
36:54
fallen
36:56
uh the following crash it was near
36:57
fallen naval air station or the bomber
37:00
bombing range and this was in the late
37:02
50s
37:03
uh there was another one in nevada that
37:05
was up
37:07
near duck water
37:09
and some of these haven’t gotten much
37:11
publicity i mean we i read about them in
37:14
classified documents there have been
37:16
some people talk about it i know stan
37:18
friedman talk about the fallen case but
37:20
he couldn’t find anything in any kind of
37:22
uh
37:23
uh open literature that talked about
37:26
that
37:26
uh and then there were there was another
37:29
famous one in canada along
37:32
a radar site in in the dew line um
37:36
distance early warning line uh radar
37:39
site uh radar line uh that they were
37:42
created in the 50s and 60s there was one
37:44
there that pretty
37:46
pretty uh
37:47
[Music]
37:48
pretty interesting case
37:50
a a um retired air force uh excuse me
37:54
retired
37:55
canadian forces air force uh canadian
37:58
forces
38:00
canadian air force canadian air force
38:02
yeah canadian air force
38:04
um captain
38:06
uh excuse me he was captain at the time
38:08
he was re he was retired
38:10
i believe lieutenant colonel anyways he
38:13
talked about this at a ufo convention
38:15
some years ago where one crashed i had
38:18
never seen anything in any kind of
38:20
classified
38:21
but after
38:23
i heard this briefing i spoke to
38:25
somebody who still worked within dia
38:27
and he confirmed to me that yes in fact
38:29
that happened in 1959 and it
38:33
i can’t remember the name of the radar
38:35
site but it was along the dew line in in
38:38
northern uh alberta i believe or
38:40
saskatchewan
38:43
um
38:43
[Music]
38:45
those are the ones that i actually
38:47
would knew about during my time period
38:50
in in osi
38:51
um
38:52
since then i’ve learned about other ones
38:55
um
38:56
i worked
38:58
when i left osi in 1980 and 1994
39:02
i went to work for
39:04
dr put off in the institute for advanced
39:06
studies at austin
39:08
i’m sure you you’ll read about that and
39:10
some and for that time period
39:12
uh we we did private uh research i did a
39:17
i was a field investigator for him
39:20
i had a darpa clearance
39:22
i went out to different locations
39:24
and one of the sites most fascinating
39:26
site i think the crash site that i’ve
39:29
actually visited because
39:32
before during my osi career i read about
39:35
crashes
39:36
but i haven’t i only visited one at one
39:39
time
39:39
and that was when i was assigned to uh
39:42
area 51 but other than that i had not
39:44
actually visited the site well in
39:46
western south dakota
39:48
there was a uh a rancher near spearfish
39:52
south dakota
39:53
uh which was out western near the
39:55
wyoming border
39:57
he had found
39:59
some debris on his ranch
40:02
and so he um

+++

40:02
and so he um
40:04
he didn’t know what it was
40:06
he didn’t really care much about it
40:07
because it was in such a remote area
40:09
that he didn’t bring it up that but some
40:11
years later two years later he told a
40:14
son
40:15
who was going to take over the ranch
40:18
and so a son went out there and looked
40:19
at this stuff
40:21
and it started
40:21
[Music]
40:23
working with it trying to drill into it
40:25
and he couldn’t do that
40:27
and he thought my gosh this has to be
40:29
something
40:30
out of this world so what he thought it
40:33
was a soviet
40:34
or a russian
40:35
because it had been on the ground for a
40:36
long time
40:38
he thought well maybe it was a russian
40:40
or a soviet satellite that had crashed
40:42
and so
40:43
anyways it got back to us the institute
40:46
for advanced studies i went up there
40:48
with another scientist from the from the
40:50
institute and when i looked at it and
40:54
started analyzing it i realized this was
40:56
in fact e.t extraterrestrial nature
41:00
so i tried i called the closest air
41:02
force base was elsewhere ellsworth air
41:04
force base in rapid city or west east of
41:07
rapid city and i tried to convince them
41:10
to come out there i talked to the osi
41:13
uh agent it was a sunday so i talked to
41:15
the osage that was on call
41:17
he thought it was a coop call at first
41:21
like i was especially you know
41:23
i’m a retired person i’m i was osi agent
41:27
and i started talking to him about osi
41:30
information the only osi agent would
41:32
know
41:33
he goes wow i start believing you well
41:35
let me see what i can do
41:36
so the next afternoon
41:39
the air force came out and recovered it
41:42
and
41:43
what was what was hal put off doing at
41:44
this point though is he kind of like
41:46
rick why did you make this he was in the
41:47
bathroom
41:48
i mean come on rick dodie’s on the phone
41:50
man recognized he gave it away well i
41:53
know i coordinated all this with him i i
41:55
talked to hal and i told hal and he said
41:58
i said there’s no way i could
42:00
put this into a vehicle it was a big
42:02
object oh wow and transport it back it
42:05
wasn’t it wasn’t as small was there
42:07
corrosion was there any corrosion on it
42:09
no not a bit of corrosion it’s amazing
42:12
not a bit of corrosion
42:13
uh
42:15
um
42:18
hieroglyphics although i i think they’re
42:20
more there were more characters like
42:23
chinese characters that were written on
42:25
about other they were chinese because it
42:26
was analyzed later i took a lot of
42:29
pictures a lot of photographs myself and
42:31
this other scientist
42:33
we managed to take a little piece of
42:35
something that had broken off now that’s
42:37
amazing because
42:39
you couldn’t drill into this thing
42:40
because
42:41
the rancher’s son tried he tried to cut
42:44
it with saws
42:46
rip saws he couldn’t even make a dent
42:48
into it but we got a piece we took back
42:50
to the laboratory and we and we analyzed
42:53
it but
42:54
i think the uh you know there are some
42:56
uh laws federal laws under title 50
43:00
united states code and that that we
43:03
couldn’t keep this
43:04
we would have had to notify the
43:06
government come on i did what i thought
43:09
why are we following i’m just kidding go
43:11
ahead that i did what i i you know i
43:14
know a lot of people criticize me i
43:15
talked to other people about this uh
43:17
years ago and they said you’re oh my god
43:20
you should have put it in the back of
43:21
there’s no way i could have lifted this
43:23
thing i mean no i wouldn’t either i mean
43:24
you got to do it you know what’s legal
43:27
because you could be held responsible
43:28
and that’s not something that you want
43:30
to mess with exactly
43:31
um so i have to go to area 51 um rick
43:37
there’s a lot of obviously you’ve heard
43:40
you know years worth of talk about this
43:42
um if there were
43:44
a craft
43:46
um is that a place that you think that
43:49
uh the government would keep a whole
43:51
craft or do you think it would have been
43:53
given over to a private contractor like
43:56
lockheed martin or bigelow what do you
43:58
think the government would do if it had
44:00
a whole craft would it be at an area 51
44:04
no it would be an area 51
44:06
it would be taken there at least during
44:08
my time period and even after that
44:12
uh
44:13
you know i worked at area 51 on two
44:15
occasions i was tdy there
44:17
um
44:18
covering for an agent that who had uh
44:20
got real sick and unfortunately passed
44:22
away
44:23
so i was tdy there on two occasions
44:26
i was briefed into a lot of programs not
44:28
everything i wasn’t briefed into
44:29
everything uh but i was briefed into a
44:31
lot of different programs i knew what
44:34
was there i knew we needed to have uh
44:36
crafts that we were studying that we
44:38
obtained the exotic crafts that were
44:40
from uh
44:42
out of this world
44:44
um we had uh ets
44:46
uh
44:48
and so we
44:49
we
44:50
air force
44:52
had the air force scientific
44:53
laboratories there
44:54
um
44:55
san diego national laboratories had a
44:57
facility there los alamos had a facility
45:00
there skunk works had a facility there
45:04
now
45:05
when we talk about area 51 we’re talking
45:07
about one area groom lake which was back
45:09
then
45:10
death 3 air force test flight center
45:13
and that’s official name for it as you
45:15
would know dj uh but we also had tonopah
45:19
tanapa air force base
45:21
which was even more secretive i think
45:24
at
45:25
for than than area 51 because very few
45:29
people knew
45:30
the operating locations on tunnel paw
45:34
now tuna paw
45:35
and area 51 or groom lake was all
45:38
contained in the nellis uh test training
45:42
range
45:43
and
45:45
within that range we they had
45:48
a a facility called wellington
45:51
wellington test center
45:53
jamestown test center they were very
45:56
highly classified locations because this
45:59
is such a large area that we’re within
46:01
that test range they were doing some
46:04
extraordinary
46:06
testing
46:07
of exotic technology in these different
46:09
areas
46:11
such as
46:12
energy weapons time travel
46:15
um
46:17
inertia
46:19
anti-inertia systems or anti-gravity
46:21
systems they call it an anti-inertia
46:24
and then
46:26
on top of all that
46:27
you had a nevada test site
46:30
or the which is now called the nevada
46:31
national security site where they
46:34
detonated nuclear weapons and tested
46:35
nuclear weapons back in the 50s 60s 70s
46:38
and 80s in the early 90s
46:40
there were highly classified facilities
46:43
used by
46:44
lockheed by general dynamics by
46:47
tektronix by e-systems all these
46:50
different
46:52
companies contract companies
46:54
they had their facilities there so there
46:56
was a lot of testing of et technology
47:00
done there also
47:02
so if i and i’m going to turn it over to
47:03
nathan because he get he gets the next
47:06
we got to share rick i mean i can’t just
47:08
you know
47:11
the question i would ask you like like i
47:13
said before your level your percentage
47:15
of confidence that there was in fact
47:17
craft brought somewhere on that groom
47:20
lake test range is what percentage
47:35
let me say this
47:37
i knew where
47:39
there was a there’s a there’s a cup
47:41
there’s
47:42
differences between
47:43
lazar’s story about s4
47:46
and what’s actually there
47:48
s4 was an underground facility under s2
47:53
s2 was a facility inside the mountain
47:57
underground at papua’s lake i’d been
48:00
there i was at s2
48:03
there you go
48:04
i was never at s4 i was never under
48:07
there i didn’t have a clearance to go
48:09
under there so i don’t know what’s under
48:11
the ground there
48:13
but i know s2 which was administrative
48:15
control center for s4
48:18
been there several times
48:20
uh you had to have a special security
48:22
clearance
48:23
exchange badge system
48:25
uh to get to get in in there and then
48:28
underground you had to even have a
48:30
different type of
48:31
entry control system to get there well
48:34
i can tell you that
48:36
i never saw anything at s4 so i don’t
48:39
know what’s down there
48:41
but
48:42
i saw a lot of things flying
48:46
well angelo seijin would take a jeep
48:49
we all had at cj7 jeeps back in those
48:52
days assigned to us we could go anywhere
48:55
out there uh we had badges to get in
48:58
almost any place
48:59
we would go out
49:01
and on security patrol so to speak is
49:03
what we would call it checking your
49:05
different areas i mean we they had air
49:08
force security police there
49:10
they were debt three out of nellis
49:12
and they had
49:13
uh and they were had high-level security
49:16
clearances they guarded the internal
49:18
controllment area the outside perimeter
49:22
was all done by whack and hot during
49:24
that time period there’s civilian
49:26
security
49:27
we would go out and drive around and we
49:29
go out to the test area where they would
49:31
do the flying and we would we would sit
49:33
there for hours watching at night these
49:36
exotic planes fly or or some kind of
49:38
crash flying
49:40
and they would fly
49:42
probably hundreds of miles an hour and
49:44
stop
49:46
and do all these weird things now
49:49
as dj can can swear to it i i’ve been in
49:52
many many airplanes
49:53
i jumped out of many many airplanes i
49:55
flew many different type in airplanes
49:59
a pilot couldn’t withstand the force the
50:02
g-force by stopping going 100 miles an
50:05
hour right is that not right i i would
50:07
say that’s accurate to come to a
50:08
complete stop you would uh you’d
50:10
probably get splattered if you weren’t
50:12
uh
50:13
i mean if it’s an immediate stop i would
50:15
say no yeah yeah and that’s what they
50:17
were doing
50:18
and then one landed close to us once and
50:21
it was an oval-shaped object um
50:24
it landed i would say maybe a mile maybe
50:27
a little over a mile from us on a flat
50:29
area
50:30
uh vehicles went up to it um
50:34
and they were obviously it was having
50:36
some
50:37
sort of a problem
50:39
and eventually
50:40
uh they were able to get it up back up
50:42
in the air
50:44
and what i saw
50:46
it wasn’t a conventional craft uh one a
50:49
conventional fly
50:52
drones back in those days drone
50:55
technology was highly classified and i
50:57
saw many many uh classified drone
50:59
projects going on in fact i was a
51:01
counterintelligence officer
51:03
for one particular project uh involving
51:06
drone technology so i know what the
51:08
drones were back in those days and these
51:10
weren’t drones in fact back in those
51:13
days the order in order to fly a drone
51:16
you’d have to have a a control aircraft
51:19
take off and those control aircrafts
51:21
were uh
51:23
135s they would fly
51:26
and they would be controlling the drones
51:28
in the air they couldn’t do it on the
51:29
ground back in those days yeah a lot
51:31
line of sight want to say yeah
51:33
exactly line of sight
51:35
exactly and so and a lot of these plane
51:38
a lot of these drones were being
51:39
launched
51:40
from plane from other planes uh
51:43
135s or 137s um
51:46
and and they even had the old um i can’t
51:50
remember
51:51
they were i think they were the box cars
51:53
a c 119 oh like a 119 yeah yeah 119 yeah
51:57
that they had a platform under it
52:00
and there were
52:01
two or four engine props i’m not sure
52:03
whatever yeah
52:04
cops would take off
52:06
and launch these drones
52:09
at a you know a couple thousand feet
52:11
and that’s how they would test drones so
52:14
we knew when drones were being tested
52:16
because we we all saw saw the control
52:18
aircraft
52:19
but these weren’t controlled aircrafts
52:20
and there were 90 control aircrafts now
52:23
some of what we were seeing uh i can
52:25
trace to the f-117 because we were there
52:29
during that time period the early 80s i
52:31
mean i saw the one i saw it on the
52:33
ground i saw the 1 17 or the prototypes
52:36
because they had three different
52:37
prototypes
52:39
i knew they what they were doing there
52:41
the aurora i saw some other planes that
52:44
were being tested that had never that
52:47
were never made into production
52:49
but
52:52
i think without a doubt that there were
52:55
uh
52:56
ufos or et crafts uh contained at area
52:59
51.
53:01
that’s 80
53:03
yeah okay good that’s great um so thank
53:07
you i want to i want to drift through a
53:08
little bit into the speculative
53:10
territory so
53:11
uh
53:13
in in in your opinion uh
53:16
because there’s a lot of debate about
53:17
this
53:18
were these crashes
53:21
gifts
53:22
or some combination of the two because
53:24
we’ve heard stories where
53:26
uh you know there’s been debris fields
53:28
as you’ve said and then there are other
53:29
stories we’ve heard where
53:31
it’s almost like they just sort of left
53:32
it with the with the keys right in the
53:34
engine the engine running you know the
53:36
lights are still on and it’s just been
53:37
landing and you know you can go ahead
53:38
and take it so what’s your opinion on
53:40
this uh debate is it is it a mixture of
53:42
the two or one the other
53:45
well i can give you what i know
53:47
factually
53:48
is that
53:49
it’s even better
53:52
i know for a fact that
53:53
some of these crafts uh recoveries
53:57
uh had uh
53:58
dead ets in them so
54:01
uh they crashed and and and i know that
54:04
for a fact i read about them i saw the
54:06
photographs
54:07
uh i can tell you that for a fact now
54:10
there are some occasions i know of two
54:12
occasions
54:13
that i did personal research into
54:16
where they found crafts on the ground
54:19
and like you said they were just there
54:21
they left them now one one was
54:24
down in arizona now near yuma um
54:28
the person uh that
54:31
initially told the story wendell stevens
54:34
i’m sure you you know who wendell
54:36
stevens is
54:37
a very good friend of mine
54:39
window had uh pictures and i did a whole
54:42
presentation on it i think there’s a
54:44
video out there too of that really yeah
54:46
there’s a human video talking about
54:49
that but not not of the actual finding
54:51
of the crap but by him talking about it
54:54
talking about the team that went out
54:55
there and recovered it from uh
54:59
holloman i think it was luke air force
55:01
base
55:02
yeah luke and uh
55:04
what’s the one
55:05
and then um
55:08
the uh
55:10
uh
55:12
davis
55:13
yeah yeah uh went down and recovered it
55:16
and uh this thing was just on in the
55:18
desert found by some hikers
55:21
uh eventually
55:23
the sheriff got there and and the air
55:25
force got there and
55:27
they actually were
55:29
they could fly it you know how to fly it
55:31
so they went onto big transport vehicle
55:34
and i think
55:36
davis mothman was the closest base
55:39
uh that’s in tucson yeah
55:42
to get it up to tucson and to
55:44
davis-monthan and i don’t know whatever
55:48
happened to it and dave wendell stephen
55:50
thinks
55:51
it would eventually got to area 51 but
55:54
uh i don’t know that they ever learned
55:56
how to fly it so
55:58
that’s that’s one
56:00
actual
56:01
et craft that i know they just found
56:03
without any bodies in
56:05
amazing so
56:07
so that would fit that nathan maybe what
56:09
you’re talking about yeah that certainly
56:11
sounds like it or a drone maybe it was
56:12
doing surveillance
56:14
on their part and then it crashed for
56:16
like
56:17
electromagnetic interference or you know
56:19
actually just you know uh uh lightning
56:21
hit it and it and it reacted you know
56:23
emi can just
56:25
do some serious damage to something well
56:28
let me throw this in when i was
56:30
put off
56:32
one of the things that he was trying to
56:33
work on uh trying to research in
56:36
and there’s conjectures all the time
56:40
people saying wait a minute these people
56:42
fly
56:43
hundreds of light years or
56:45
thousands of my
56:47
light years or whatever from another
56:48
planet into our solar system and crash
56:51
how can that happen
56:53
well dr put off
56:55
did a number of different papers
56:57
explaining
56:58
that our atmosphere
57:02
could be distinctly different than where
57:04
they came from
57:05
i mean they leave an atmosphere that is
57:08
entirely different from ours they fly in
57:11
space which is everybody
57:14
spaces same thing
57:16
come into our
57:18
atmosphere with our
57:20
gravity and our inertia systems and so
57:23
forth
57:24
they could experience a whole lot of
57:26
problems that would cause them to crash
57:29
such as lightning and and wind shear and
57:32
all sorts of different things that they
57:33
wouldn’t have ever encountered in their
57:35
own in their own planet so just i just
57:38
throw that out there no it’s a good
57:40
theory i guess what i’m curious to get
57:42
your take on
57:43
with respect to this is that
57:46
they’re
57:48
we’re clearly dealing with a very intel
57:50
a high intelligence right so
57:53
what is it
57:54
in your mind what kind of process do you
57:56
go through
57:58
to verify the truthfulness of what we
58:01
are seeing and discovering because
58:03
you know if you’re playing if someone’s
58:05
playing a game with you and they know
58:07
way more than you do about
58:10
the nature of reality or they have
58:12
mastery over certain technologies or
58:14
we’ve heard about you know that they
58:16
could have
58:18
uh some degree of control over even our
58:20
our the way we think you know if if you
58:22
if you take all those things into
58:24
consideration
58:25
does that make you question
58:27
kind of what what you see and if it does
58:30
what are the things that eliminate we
58:32
lost rick entirely
58:34
oh my goodness this is terrible i’ll
58:35
take that question we’re going to repeat
58:37
that question yeah why don’t you take
58:38
that question the nexus
58:40
i’m just kidding
58:42
no
58:43
it’s fascinating
58:44
he’s he’s yeah he’s he’s phenomenal i
58:46
mean this like he is giving us a lot of
58:50
interesting things that uh i i hadn’t
58:52
heard him talk about so i’m very
58:54
gratified that that he’s sharing a lot
58:57
uh i i kind of like what i don’t know
58:59
what you think nathan i kind of would
59:01
like to get his thing you know we don’t
59:03
want to keep him all that long because
59:05
now it’s been an hour at this point uh i
59:07
would like to get his take on on tic tac
59:09
and what what thoughts went through his
59:11
head when he saw the performance of that
59:14
and the interaction i would like to get
59:16
his thoughts on whether what he what
59:17
does he think about if possibly some of
59:20
these intelligence were were born here
59:22
and originated here and are appearing
59:25
and disappearing which we we in the
59:27
community think that’s a a very very
59:29
plausible hypothesis
59:31
um and i was going to mention pressure
59:33
is what what he was talking about um
59:35
when they come into our atmosphere 14.7
59:38
psi of pressure at
59:40
at sea level that hi rick i’m back
59:43
what’s going on i got high speed
59:45
internet here too yeah something fishy
59:47
is happening here rick well uh
59:49
somebody’s probably fearing man
59:51
you probably got the gist of my question
59:52
but i guess you know as someone who has
59:54
a background in intelligence and and
59:56
discerning truthfulness
59:58
what are the things that you use to
60:00
apply to this topic that help you get to

+++

60:00
apply to this topic that help you get to
60:03
a place where you have a high degree of
60:05
confidence in what it is that you’re
60:06
seeing and hearing uh about ufo
60:10
well
60:12
during my time man i learned a lot of
60:13
scientifics i’m not a scientist
60:16
i i am a uh uh i do teach math online so
60:20
i i don’t something about mathematics
60:23
but i i don’t know anything about the
60:26
celestial navigation or mechanics or
60:28
anything like that uh
60:30
so
60:31
i judge a person by
60:34
uh
60:35
indicators one of the things we learned
60:38
in uh in training
60:40
um is uh how to interrogate yeah
60:43
interviews and interrogations distinctly
60:46
different interviewing somebody
60:47
interrogating somebody you watch your
60:49
mannerisms
60:50
uh and so forth so i’m a pretty good
60:53
judge of characters i looked at person
60:54
in their eyes if they can’t maintain eye
60:57
contact with me
60:58
um
60:59
i’ve heard stories
61:01
that were
61:02
clearly out of this world so to speak
61:05
and some of them
61:07
what i’ll do is i’ll listen to every
61:09
anybody at ufo conventions or
61:11
people sending me emails i’ll listen to
61:13
them and then i judge them by number one
61:16
their character what i can determine the
61:18
character and personality and then also
61:20
by the information the subject matter
61:23
they’re giving me some of the
61:24
information i hear is just
61:27
total baloney i mean what they claim
61:29
they saw or did uh i’ll just say well
61:32
you know i wasn’t there you saw whatever
61:34
you did i i can’t really make a judgment
61:36
on that
61:37
um if it’s at a ufo convention
61:40
uh people
61:41
most most of these people
61:44
uh will be abductees or
61:47
contactees they call them now and
61:49
they’ll come and they’ll talk to me well
61:51
i had never been briefed in any programs
61:54
regarding abductees
61:57
until one i i was i didn’t handle one i
62:00
could talk about that a little bit later
62:02
and so
62:03
uh i believe that they’re
62:05
now i believe at the time and but now i
62:08
believe that there’s something to the
62:09
abduction
62:11
phenomena definitely something to it and
62:14
i believe a lot of people and i and i
62:16
really apologize to a lot of people
62:18
over the years that i didn’t believe
62:20
i was wrong i mean i know everything
62:23
uh and and i believe a lot of what i
62:26
heard before
62:27
uh i i understand what they were telling
62:30
me that was was truthful
62:32
so that’s how i judge people and i judge
62:34
most of it on
62:36
what people tell me like for instance
62:38
i they they claim that they saw a
62:40
aircraft they saw this ufo flying and it
62:44
had these lights on it and well
62:47
you know i’m a trained air traffic
62:49
control specialist
62:51
leaving a i know the lighting systems of
62:53
every single aircraft i know where the
62:56
red light is and the
62:57
and what they’re telling me is they’re
62:59
describing
63:00
an faa lighting pattern of an aircraft
63:02
and i tried to tell them that i said
63:04
well you know what if a ufo comes to our
63:07
planet they’re not going to obey our faa
63:09
rules
63:10
i mean it’d be convenient if they would
63:12
it would be nice i mean
63:14
it would be nice that’d be nice so i’m
63:17
saying yeah you know i don’t think what
63:19
you saw was in fact a ufo i think i
63:21
think it was probably a
63:23
a regular aircraft uh
63:26
maybe an air force plane or or a
63:29
civilian
63:31
airliner and so i’ll judge him in that
63:34
respect and so and then there’s some
63:37
that you just can’t
63:38
some people
63:40
will uh like one particular person i’m
63:42
not gonna name the person
63:44
i do shows a gaia i guess you know that
63:47
yeah i did not know that i have about 20
63:50
episodes on gaia cosmic disclosure with
63:53
emery smith
63:54
um
63:55
and there’s another person there that
63:56
does some shows
63:58
and
63:59
you know he has a lot of claims about
64:01
being this and that and and and a secret
64:04
space program
64:06
um
64:07
he passed a polygraph examination he
64:09
passed a stress test uh maybe he’s
64:12
telling the truth i just don’t know
64:14
about any of this so
64:15
i can’t judge people anymore uh like i
64:19
like i used to i mean i go to ufo
64:20
conventions and listen to people and i
64:23
want to believe them
64:25
and a lot of people tell me the truth
64:26
they they they tell me this objects
64:29
flying around it didn’t have any lights
64:31
on well number one
64:34
that’s a good indicator that it was
64:36
something probably i didn’t know because
64:39
you can’t you can’t uh excuse me
64:43
you can’t uh fly a a plane
64:46
unless it’s under a certain altitude
64:48
without a lighting system at night you
64:49
just can’t do that right you i mean you
64:51
can but you’re gonna you’re very
64:53
dangerous for some problems you’re gonna
64:55
have f-16s chasing you so somewhere so
64:58
ryder
64:59
yeah exactly
65:00
so
65:01
uh that’s how i judge people to answer
65:03
your question no that’s great well i
65:05
know we want to transition to
65:07
the recent stuff dj but really quickly
65:10
do you feel like we’re we’re kind of
65:12
disentangling this though from the past
65:14
like
65:16
as you mentioned like the story seemed
65:18
to be very clear and then it kind of got
65:20
pretty
65:21
as the community
65:23
like allowed its imagination to go to
65:25
run wild and now we are left kind of
65:29
trying to put it back together and and
65:31
form a coherent story do you feel like
65:33
that there’s been a lot of damage from
65:36
the intervening years and
65:38
we’re now trying to set the right record
65:40
straight and we’re doing we’re kind of
65:41
restoring the trust with the people and
65:44
telling what’s really going on
65:47
well absolutely and you know i have to
65:50
blame
65:51
um
65:53
us intelligence for a lot of this
65:56
because and me me being being one of
65:58
them uh
65:59
there were a lot of uh programs that we
66:04
uh we did back in the
66:06
late 70s and 80s
66:08
that was disinformation we call them
66:10
counterintelligence operations sure but
66:12
we just informed the public public we
66:14
did we did some things that i’m not i’m
66:16
not proud of i can admit to it
66:21
in disinforming uh the paul benowitz
66:23
case
66:24
and and others um
66:26
trying to convince a person one way to
66:28
the other convincing them that what they
66:30
were seeing
66:32
was in fact ufo when it was really a
66:34
classified air force project or or vice
66:37
versa convincing it was air force
66:39
project when it was actually something
66:41
we didn’t know about yeah so we didn’t
66:42
want
66:44
uh a a um upset public
66:48
or a panic public so uh the government
66:51
is responsible and that wasn’t just me
66:53
there were thousands of other uh
66:55
intelligence officers doing the exact
66:57
same thing that i was doing so uh i
66:59
think that’s uh we put we put a a wrench
67:03
in there a monkey wrench in there and
67:05
and we we would be responsible for some
67:07
of that but on the other hand the ufo
67:10
community did it themselves sure by
67:13
writing books uh about things that are
67:16
absolutely not true
67:18
and
67:19
putting uh fear in the public
67:22
uh although
67:23
um i don’t wanna sound dramatic now or
67:27
or sound uh upset anybody but there are
67:30
things out there that i
67:33
witnessed
67:34
or i read
67:36
i would briefed into
67:38
that scared me i mean very i mean really
67:41
really scared me and believe me
67:43
i don’t scare easy
67:45
i believe that i 100 believe that i
67:48
jumped into an area i jumped into an
67:51
area that there’s four of us that jumped
67:53
into and
67:54
it was
67:55
in back in my combat control days and it
67:58
was very you know very dangerous anyways
68:00
getting off that but
68:01
you know
68:02
that really does scare me the things
68:04
that i read and i would i don’t want to
68:06
repeat some of the stuff is still
68:08
classified some of the things that
68:10
happened
68:11
that that i was there and witnessed is
68:14
are still classified so there are things
68:16
out there that uh
68:17
be careful what you ask for because of
68:19
course
68:20
yeah
68:21
i’m with you and we we wouldn’t ask you
68:23
to to violate anything i’m kind of
68:25
curious to get your perspective on
68:28
there’s a lot of theories now
68:31
that are based upon
68:33
vehicles that we see in the air and i’ve
68:35
kind of stopped using the term flying in
68:37
some instances particularly with tic tac
68:40
because the way that it operates it
68:42
doesn’t seem to interact with the air
68:45
the way that uh bernoulli’s theorem
68:47
would dictate
68:48
uh newtonian physics would dictate uh
68:51
you know first and third laws of motion
68:53
these types of things so i’m not sure
68:55
that they’re flying but they’re moving
68:57
in our airspace
68:58
um
68:59
because of the fact that some of these
69:00
are going underwater
69:02
where are you on the hypothesis that
69:04
maybe they are from here and are already
69:07
here and are making themselves appear or
69:10
making themselves known when they want
69:12
to
69:13
and then disappearing or going into into
69:16
another medium in the ocean when they
69:18
want to what are your thoughts about
69:20
that hypothesis
69:22
well there are a lot of cases out there
69:25
that
69:28
pertain to
69:29
ufos being seen
69:31
over the ocean over over a body of water
69:34
disappearing into the ocean
69:37
i was never
69:39
never briefed in anything regarding it
69:41
underwater ufo
69:43
i know there were other others i’m a
69:46
member of a retired retired intelligence
69:49
association we have naval officer naval
69:52
intelligence officers in that and they
69:54
tell stories about what they had been
69:56
briefed into regarding uh
69:59
the ufo are you
70:01
under surf surface under underwater
70:04
uso which excuse me yes thank you thanks
70:06
nathan nathan uh usos uh then they and
70:10
there’s a
70:11
the most classic was a as a
70:14
submarine that was traveling in the
70:19
this was in the 80s uh chasing a soviet
70:22
submarine in the uh bering strait
70:25
um and they were i don’t know how deep
70:27
they were but
70:28
um
70:30
our submarines chasing they were a
70:32
thousand meters from the russian
70:34
submarine all of a sudden
70:35
this craft comes in
70:37
to view
70:38
on sonar
70:40
and it comes right up in front of the
70:42
the the uss submarine i can’t remember
70:45
what the name of it was uh
70:47
anyways whatever the name of the
70:48
submarine was
70:49
shocking the whole crew the 80-man crew
70:53
and not knowing what this thing was
70:55
they first thought that it might have
70:57
been something that the soviets had
70:59
fired at him uh maybe an underwater big
71:02
torpedo or something
71:04
but the thing just stopped so it forced
71:06
our submarines stopped
71:08
and now back in those days they
71:10
explained this this
71:12
uh
71:13
in fact i actually talked to spoke with
71:16
not on not in person but on phone of the
71:18
submarine commander
71:20
back in those days they didn’t have
71:21
monitors they didn’t if they didn’t have
71:23
uh uh cameras everything was on sonar so
71:27
everything was sonar pictured and they
71:29
see this picture and none of the sonar
71:31
operators the experts could figure out
71:33
what it was
71:34
it seemed to have mass
71:36
but it then it seemed to be less dense
71:39
than something that they would like a a
71:41
metal object
71:43
they couldn’t figure it out
71:44
but it did give the the the soviets uh
71:48
a chance to get away so to speak
71:50
and this thing stayed with us for a long
71:52
time when eventually we surfaced and
71:55
there was a uh a destroyer or a navy
71:57
ship
71:58
some distance away but came up
72:01
when they when they surfaced this huge
72:03
object came out of the water
72:05
it came up above the surface and then
72:07
flew above him away now
72:10
you know he says i didn’t believe in
72:12
ufos or anything like that now usos now
72:16
what what was that it couldn’t be one of
72:18
ours could it
72:20
so
72:21
after that and this was years after i
72:23
got out uh i tend to think there’s
72:26
something to it now whether
72:28
we they have a base
72:30
under the ocean like 32 only 32 percent
72:33
of our oceans
72:35
have ever been mapped so
72:37
uh you know we got
72:39
millions of miles of oceans out there
72:41
that we don’t know what’s down there i
72:42
mean there they were taught they just
72:44
recently i i was listening to somebody
72:47
talk about the indian ocean the southern
72:49
indian ocean and near antarctica
72:52
none of that’s ever been met they don’t
72:54
know
72:55
okay so
72:57
could degree basis down there
72:59
they’re very possible could it be some
73:01
sort of an interdimensional
73:04
craft
73:05
i’m not so much into that i’m not i i
73:09
uh dr put off did a paper on that too
73:11
and you really have to be
73:14
um
73:16
schooled in uh theoretical physics
73:20
to understand
73:21
the
73:23
what would it take
73:25
to fly something in an inner dimension
73:28
and then we see it
73:30
you know it’s it’s really complex
73:33
so i i’m not sure
73:35
i mean maybe it maybe there is and i
73:36
just don’t know about it
73:38
and i i mean there’s a lot of things out
73:39
there that i that you’re open to it open
73:42
to it i’ll be very open to it yes sure
73:44
well
73:44
i just want to say one more thing to
73:46
rick before i turn it to nathan yeah
73:48
rick i know it’ll give you great
73:49
pleasure to know that in my head when i
73:51
hear the names rick dodie and hal put
73:54
off
73:55
and kit green
73:56
and and admiral wilson like this
73:59
mysterious music goes off of my head
74:01
it’s amazing you’re one of the people
74:02
that makes that happen
74:04
i’m sorry i’m being an idiot but this is
74:06
so much fun you’re so much fun rick
74:07
thanks for playing yeah i enjoyed having
74:09
another show
74:10
well
74:11
and i guess i’m curious rick so over
74:13
time
74:14
uh as our science has advanced you know
74:18
we have gone from
74:19
uh understanding that you know we’re in
74:22
a we’re in a galaxy or a planet there we
74:24
even know there are many planets for
74:26
until very in the last i think you know
74:28
three decades or so outside of our solar
74:31
system and then we started imaging them
74:33
and seeing them but then going into
74:34
quantum physics understanding quantum
74:36
physics has changed the way that we look
74:37
at the world and then of course we’re on
74:39
the cusp of artificial intelligence and
74:42
we and people talk about ai like ai is
74:44
everywhere but we really haven’t yet
74:46
achieved ai we’re but we are close and
74:48
we’re working on getting there but we
74:51
it’s within reach and my point here is
74:53
as our science as our understanding of
74:55
what we are capable of changes does that
74:58
impact our understanding of what this
75:01
actually is
75:03
well absolutely
75:05
in fact
75:07
the
75:08
the scientific community the secret
75:10
scientific community
75:12
the uh darpa scientists
75:15
scientists
75:16
in the in the
75:18
secret rooms in los alamos and sandia
75:21
and lawrence livermore
75:24
they’re doing exactly that as as our
75:28
technology advances our scientific
75:30
understanding of the universe advances
75:34
we go in and bring out these objects
75:36
that we found years ago
75:39
and try to understand them more
75:41
now with our advanced
75:43
learning uh we might be able to
75:46
understand
75:47
this
75:48
object that we that we found that came
75:51
from an e.t the energy device or the
75:54
communications device or the the
75:57
propulsion system
75:58
um
76:00
and and and we do that and and and dr
76:03
putoff has has publicly talked about
76:05
doing that as as other scientists have
76:08
that okay as a as we understand science
76:11
more
76:12
but the problem there is
76:15
this technology that we’re looking at
76:17
came from
76:18
an entirely different civilization
76:21
in a different
76:22
different uh
76:23
maybe obviously different solar system
76:26
maybe even a different galaxy although
76:28
i think the consensus among dr puthoff
76:31
and most other scientists is it would be
76:34
from our
76:35
galaxy we we just can’t believe
76:38
that
76:39
somebody could travel
76:41
uh from from uh you know a billion light
76:44
years away or 100 million or something
76:47
to our planet so we would we would think
76:49
that most of of these were in our our
76:53
galaxy
76:54
and
76:56
and but
76:57
they’re made with a different technology
77:00
different materials
77:02
so we may never understand
77:06
alien technology yeah we might
77:09
understand some
77:10
we might and as dr puthoff puts it we
77:12
might understand the concept this is a
77:15
propulsion system
77:16
this works by something
77:19
we just have to figure out what
77:21
and something could be some
77:23
an item or a
77:26
element that we don’t have here on this
77:27
planet that they have in some other
77:29
planet
77:31
and then there’s a
77:33
there’s a also a theory that was uh
77:37
put out some years ago stan friedman
77:38
talked about this in his book
77:40
uh if in fact something came from
77:43
another galaxy
77:45
a different type of galaxy than ours
77:48
the physics on that galaxy could be
77:50
entirely different
77:52
than the physics here
77:54
now i don’t personally believe that but
77:56
because it’s just all one one one
77:59
universe i mean goes i’m not a scientist
78:01
though
78:01
but but i understand what two and two is
78:03
for and you know i can understand
78:06
mathematics might be the same but
78:08
there it could be some difference but um
78:12
i think that we have to really advance
78:15
our
78:16
knowledge
78:17
of the of of of the universe before we
78:19
could ever
78:21
try to understand some of the et
78:22
technology
78:24
yeah
78:25
um
78:26
rick
78:27
there i know there’s like there’s so
78:28
much to get to uh nathan and i are
78:30
struggling thinking about but but we can
78:32
we’re not going to we’re gonna wrap up
78:34
so we just have a couple more questions
78:36
if that’s okay sure
78:38
what were the emotions that you
78:41
uh felt and i know that you don’t
78:44
uh your job is basically to
78:47
look at an event and not apply emotion
78:49
to it to be dispassionate to be
78:52
analytical
78:53
to see what’s going on and then make an
78:55
assessment based on what you’ve seen and
78:57
with that with all that happened
78:59
regarding tic tac with dave fravor
79:02
alex
79:03
chad underwood uh the guys and gals that
79:06
were on the uh uss princeton uh the uh
79:10
aegis radar cruiser
79:12
um
79:13
the e2 hawkeye folks what was your
79:15
assessment of of
79:17
that how did you process that
79:19
information and what did you think about
79:21
it
79:22
i interviewed all right i sat and talked
79:25
with an interview my i sat and i spoke
79:28
with a lot of them
79:29
at uh at different locations something
79:32
ufo mentioned in other places uh we were
79:35
brought together in california
79:37
uh about a year and a half ago and and
79:40
and it was
79:42
at a hotel room and it was a roundtable
79:44
discussion
79:45
um
79:47
they were every single person that
79:49
witnessed the tic-tac
79:51
the uss nimitz or the the uh
79:54
the um
79:55
the roosevelt case the pilots
79:58
um
79:59
they were all very passionate
80:00
i i believe everything they said

+++

80:00
i i believe everything they said
80:04
uh they spoke from the heart
80:07
uh they didn’t exaggerate
80:09
you know amazing thing about pilots i
80:12
mean and i really admire pilots of
80:14
course
80:14
t.j.u is that they
80:17
they are great observers
80:20
and
80:21
they’ll tell you what they see
80:23
and that’s it
80:25
and um
80:28
and and they
80:29
they follow
80:31
they follow instructions and of course
80:32
they have to fly in his plane that you
80:35
know one small mistake and i mean and i
80:38
saw it from the ground on this combat
80:39
controller
80:40
you know i tell a pilot you know you got
80:42
a hole in this one holding pattern and
80:45
it might be a really small holding
80:46
pattern but
80:48
boy this f4 pilot’s doing it or this you
80:50
know whatever plane he’s flying
80:53
uh and they’re doing exactly what i’m
80:55
telling them to do because there’s six
80:57
other
80:59
but but but i admire everything admire
81:02
the the observation abilities of pilots
81:05
and i didn’t hear anything from any of
81:06
these uh either the air crew or the
81:09
ground crew
81:10
uh
81:11
that uh the the the radar plane the navy
81:15
what was that called yeah
81:18
e2 hawkeye
81:19
um
81:20
i didn’t see any i didn’t uh
81:23
see anything that i i thought was out of
81:26
the ordinary i believed i believe them
81:29
the the the pain the pilot uh the male
81:31
and female pilot the co-pilot were
81:33
flying against the tic tac
81:37
perfect observation articulate and
81:39
everything
81:40
talking about the speed that they were
81:42
flying the different headings that they
81:44
were flying and everything i mean
81:47
i don’t find anything
81:49
out of the ordinary with anyone that
81:52
witnessed uh these things
81:54
how i think what i was really getting at
81:56
is how how did you feel about what that
81:58
did that craft represent a different
82:01
level of uh some different performance
82:03
characteristics because you probably
82:05
hadn’t heard a lot of interactions where
82:07
you have you now have an fa18 that’s in
82:11
a in an orbit in a little bit of a
82:13
mexican standoff with a tic-tac after he
82:16
pointed his nose at that object on the
82:18
ground uh
82:20
that was hovering above the ocean so i
82:22
was wondering if that represented a
82:24
little bit of a shift in the
82:26
the paradigm in our interactions with
82:28
these uh these craft
82:30
oh yeah their description of what they
82:32
observed
82:33
uh was something uh was a craft that i i
82:37
had not uh seen or heard uh that were
82:40
was clearly probably uh based on my
82:42
knowledge in my
82:44
uh my history uh uh that wasn’t one of
82:47
ours it was definitely either either
82:50
something that russians or chinese had
82:52
that you know they developed exotic
82:55
technology or it was something from from
82:58
out of this world
82:59
but but i did have an occasion if i
83:02
could just interject real quick please
83:05
in the area 51 there was a ufo incident
83:08
that was flying the craft was flying
83:10
inside another’s test and training range
83:14
we had just
83:16
the f-16s were brand new back in the
83:19
early 80s and we just got two new ones
83:22
on alert at nellis
83:24
they flew out after this object now we
83:27
know
83:28
ground controllers knew
83:30
it wasn’t one of ours there was nothing
83:32
supposed to be flying and these two f-16
83:35
pilots
83:36
uh and i was happen to be near a radio
83:39
uh listening to they were on a the 230 i
83:43
remember the frequency 234.150 bam and
83:46
and they were
83:48
they were talking
83:50
back and forth
83:52
and and
83:53
listening and seeing what they were
83:55
trying to chase
83:56
and they said this is exotic we can’t we
83:59
can’t keep up with this and these are
84:01
brand new f-16s
84:02
so
84:03
i did have an occasion to witness
84:05
something like that
84:06
that that is an awesome awesome
84:08
narrative nick thank you uh rick thank
84:10
you for telling that and this this uh
84:12
f-16 still is an amazing aircraft and
84:15
we’re still updating him and flying him
84:17
i got to hear uh terry verts the
84:19
astronaut who has this podcast where
84:22
he’s interviewing his friend who’s an f
84:24
current f-35 pilot and they’re going
84:26
over the differences and it’s amazing
84:28
but the f-16 remains uh an absolutely
84:32
amazing uh aircraft still today so
84:36
um all right so um i think we we really
84:40
kind of want to wrap it up now uh rick i
84:43
guess we would ask you um
84:46
what disclosure
84:48
what level of disclosure do you think
84:50
the american people should get
84:52
uh how much do you think they should
84:54
know um and why do you why do you feel
84:57
that way whatever that level is
85:00
i think they should they should get the
85:02
uh
85:03
the basics i i don’t think there’s
85:06
there’s a lot of information out there
85:07
that they should they they don’t want to
85:09
know uh they they probably shouldn’t
85:11
know uh highly technical stuff
85:14
technology that we developed
85:16
from the et’s uh propulsion
85:18
and uh
85:19
aerodynamics uh cloaking uh things like
85:22
that no we we’re not gonna disclose that
85:25
stuff because it’s going to get out to
85:27
the our enemies
85:28
i think they they should know the
85:30
history i have no
85:32
problems with them knowing the history
85:33
from 1947 on and and and if there are if
85:37
the government has information about
85:39
something that happened before that
85:41
that i don’t know about
85:42
i think they should disclose it that the
85:44
basic historical facts about our
85:46
contacts with ufos from 1947 on i
85:50
believe they should know they have the
85:52
right to know
85:53
and i think there was a program years
85:55
ago that wanted to do that and i’d know
85:59
a people that were involved in that
86:00
thing that program
86:02
and they tried to get the public
86:04
conditioned
86:06
uh
86:07
movies like the close uh
86:09
uh uh the day the earth should still
86:11
1951 that was supposedly
86:13
controlled by an air force captain who
86:16
had actually wrote the script to that
86:18
and so i mean all these these different
86:20
programs over the years
86:23
i think we were trying to condition the
86:24
public and somehow
86:28
somehow it got screwed up i don’t know
86:30
if it was by whoever’s controlling this
86:33
that i don’t know at all
86:34
or by our government i don’t know but we
86:37
we should have a disclosure and i think
86:39
skinwalker ranch
86:42
uh
86:43
walker the
86:46
pentagon
86:47
i think that’s somewhat of a uh
86:50
attempt to disclose some of it
86:54
um
86:56
the construct that you believe i i hate
86:59
to bring this up again and i i hate to
87:01
close with this but people are
87:04
interested to know is that how we would
87:07
obscure this and this mj 12 business
87:11
we spoke about earlier about how do you
87:13
how do you get people who have a need to
87:15
know not to know it do you know what
87:18
kind of a construct there was to be able
87:20
to
87:21
obfuscate this information or at least
87:23
contain it within a relatively small
87:27
group of people
87:30
no i i wish i knew
87:32
i you know that that question is is one
87:36
for
87:37
somebody well above my pay graze upgrade
87:39
but um i just you know i i just don’t i
87:42
don’t know um
87:44
mj-12 documents that’s we could we could
87:47
do a whole program on that that’s okay
87:49
that’s okay i i mean i i really
87:51
appreciate your candor i just i had to
87:53
ask i had to get that one in there rick
87:55
you know
87:57
understand what
87:58
uh yeah rick do you uh do you do you
88:01
agree with the sort of sentiment
88:02
expressed by
88:04
reagan at the at the un convention um
88:08
you know that that this is a topic
88:11
that would really kind of bring the
88:12
world together you know in fact louis
88:14
lozando
88:15
i think just yesterday in an interview
88:18
you know was really trying to call for
88:20
a global effort to understand this and
88:23
to work together on this topic
88:26
do you share that sentiment do you think
88:28
that do you show that optimism this
88:30
would be a unifying factor for the world
88:33
yes yes i agree with
88:35
with that statement that lou made i
88:38
i i agree and we should be a personal a
88:42
topic that brought through the united
88:44
nations
88:45
um where each country can come forth and
88:48
and um
88:50
spill the beans so to speak
88:51
i don’t know that that’s ever gonna
88:53
happen because there’s
88:54
um there’s so much information that’s
88:58
it’s compartmented
88:59
from our government that we’re not going
89:01
to disclose and there’s i know a lot
89:02
from the russians i mean we can do it
89:04
out entire show on that what the
89:06
russians knew what the soviets knew with
89:09
chinese news so i don’t think that’s
89:10
going to happen i wish
89:13
i wish i wish it would uh we which could
89:16
have a full disclosure
89:18
by uh
89:20
the united nations
89:22
anything that would bring the world
89:23
together um
89:25
rick i i really can’t thank you enough
89:27
for coming here and sharing some time
89:29
with us and having some fun with us
89:32
uh laughing with us a little bit yeah
89:34
and and talking to us it uh i really
89:37
mean this as not only a podcast host but
89:39
firm and fellow air force brother it was
89:42
an absolute honor to have you here sir
89:45
um thank you very much i really
89:46
appreciate it well thank you for your
89:48
service too dj and it’s a pleasure to
89:50
know you nathan likewise rick hope to
89:53
have uh have you on again soon sometime
89:56
rick dodi ladies and gentlemen thank you
89:58
so much
90:00
thank you
90:00
you’re welcome
90:02
[Music]
90:30
you

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https://nationalufocenter.com/blog/category/filers-files/

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